Where is Our Traffic Enforcement?

Question MarkHaving spent 20 years in traffic enforcement I'm always curious if I will see any of it being done when I travel on our highways. Unfortunately I have to say that I very rarely see a police vehicle in my travels, much less one stopped at the side of the road dealing with a driver.

The erratic driver I saw this morning brought the question to mind "where's a cop when you need one?"

image of officer doing traffic enforcement

Traffic Enforcement Spread Thin

At my last posting we typically had three dedicated traffic enforcement personnel on shift at any one time, assuming no one was taking time off, sick or in court. We three could be anywhere on literally hundreds of kilometres of highway within our patrol district. It's not a surprise that you could drive and not meet up with one of use on any given day.

Traffic Policing Positions

The Ministry of Justice's documents show 396 dedicated provincial traffic policing positions in 2010. Current reports don't show how police are divided into enforcement areas other than municipal and provincial.

Are Those Positions Filled?

What isn't shown is whether these positions are actually filled with officers who are fit for duty and on the job. If they are not full, this may explain why I'm not seeing active traffic enforcement around me when I drive.

Vehicle Related Risks

When I consider that I am more likely to suffer financial loss, injury or death in the operation of my vehicle than I am through all other criminal causes combined my perceived lack of enforcement is distressing. Yes, I may just be in the wrong place at the wrong time to not see policing in action. Not seeing it on a continual basis cannot be a good thing.

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I've been starting to think that this is actually the major issue on the road.

Driving to and from work in Vancouver, I used to see traffic enforcement at least once a week.  Now I'm lucky to see it once a year.

And almost every day, I now see an egregious traffic violation.

When I am in other cities where enforcement is more visible, the number of offences seem much lower.

I'm inclined to agree with you on the lack of enforcement, and as per your November 21st post, Do as I say, Not as I do, when you do see a cop car on the road the driver is just as bad at following the basic rules of the road as everyone else.  The majority of problems I see on the road are either related to excessive speed or following too close.

I've been complaining about this to the police and ICBC , I've tweeted about it, I added my comments on Facebook. Any media available. Yet, I get the same candid responses: call your local police department, it's not our responsibilty, this is not an ICBC concern.

We all pay our vehicle insurance to ICBC, we pay our taxes. ICBC runs campaigns about drinking and driving, occasional 'road sense" tips, and take the credit for less accidents or issues on the road (or wherever their statisticians tend to manipulate the numbers).  

Whenever there is anything good in the news about driving or the roads, ICBC will jump right in and take the credit. When it comes to traffic enforcement, they pass the buck to the police who despite all the [known issues] they have internally and their drachonian culture, one fact remains: they do not have the resources to police the roads and traffic. I cannot accept the blame lies with the police forces in the province. I submit the blame is on ICBC.  

Many other countries, states, etc have reporting mechanisms in place where you call a toll free number to report aggressive, traffic violators, and dangerous drivers. Not only do these government agencies seriously take these complaints, they action them. Whether it be someone is driving erratically on the road, someone is tailgaiting you, or someone who is running red lights. 

In this day and age, we have smartphones with video and more and more people are driving with tiny video cameras mounted on their windshields. Any excuse to dismiss the need of pursuing these violaters or proving their 'guilt' is pointless. If anything, there is a record of the incident, unlike now when ICBC merely says call 911. Of course, calling 911 is inappropriate just because someone cut you off or can't keep their vehicle in their lane. Not to mention, this is not a serious issue like drinking and driving.

The bottom line is ICBC have the power, money and resources to make our roads safer.  If for whatever 'legal reason" they may not, change the law so they do.  However, they don't want the accountablilty. They rather blame the police that it's their problem, not theirs when in fact, it is everyone's problem.

396 positions for traffic enforcement seems kind of low for an area the size of BC, however, it seems to me that the problems have nothing to do with enforcement, but in fact have everything to do with attitude of the driving public. To me, it seems, there has been a shift in driver etiquette.

Everyone seems out for themselves and god forbid that you get in my way. I drive the speed limit most of the time and I guarantee you that in the 40 kms I commuute that there will be someone who is in a rush and will put 1 meter between their front bumper and my rear bumper regardless of how fast the speed limit. There have been instances where drivers will cross the double yellow to pass me.

I've even had 18 wheelers do this! Once I thought that I'd report the trucker to his company and got the truck number. Turns out if was some place in a remote part of the Kooteneys and it was hard to find the number.

The point is that enforcement isn't possible if a majority of citizens choose to ignore the law. The 55 MPH speed limit in the US failed because many people in the western US have to drive great distances and most drivers simply ignored it.

I agree entirely with the editorial.  The Police in our community are not out on the roads; unless they all have a Harry Potter cloak of invisibility.  Our local force claims to have 25% of its' officers dedicated to traffic duty, and yet we never see them.  They will come out for an hour or so if you put in a complaint, but they are reluctant to do so.  The last time I asked them to do that, I got a call back from the corporal in charge who told me they had given out a few tickets, but basically in his opinion, they thought they were wasting their time.

Recently, I went on the Blueline forum (a group of forums for polcemen/women) to ask their opinions on a reduced speed limit for residential areas.  There is a ton of research from all around the world to support this, btw.  Boy did I get jumped on!  One officer asked what planet I lived on.  Most were more polite, but still quite hostile.  They told me in no uncertain terms that enforcement was a waste of their time, that drivers will go at whatever speed they feel comfortable (true, but usually illegal and very dangerous to the rest of us), and that they felt they had better things to do.

Don't get me wrong.  I support our local police and I recognize they have many competing priorities.  Traffic duty is perhaps one of the more dangerous of them.  Would you want to be standing out in the poring rain with cars and trucks whizzing by you only a meter away while giving someone a ticket?  On the other hand, don't we pay our police officers a very good salary to enforce our laws, traffic laws among them?

If it is true, that the police think they have better things to do, then perhaps it is time to reintroduce photo-radar.  There is no greater deterent to speeding than knowing that it is likely you will be caught.  In Australia, they have privatized speed limit enforcement (using photo-radar) and from what I hear it is very successful at getting everyone to slow down.

Agree with the article. There is a serious lack of enforcement, especially as the speed has increased and more and more drivers push the "10 k/h over the posted speed limit is OK" up to 15 k/h is OK. It is frustrating to see the fast drivers whizzing by and they catch the green light, while by the time I get there, the light is amber/red. Oh well, at least I have never had an accident in my 38 years of driving.

There are so many infractions going on arouind me when I drive, it would be easy to fill some more coffers for the police. 

 

I wanted to report an older Corolla sedan with modified front headlights (illegal on two counts) and who was also speeding, zig zagging through traffic like he was Mario Andretti. 

I called the police department in the area where I saw the car. I told the operator that I wanted to report the vehicle so an officer (when time permits) could visit this person and speak to them as well as examine the vehicle. I also made it clear that I won't go to court.

Because I was not prepared to go to court, the operator candidly replied no action will be taken. Only a report will be filed.  

And that people is the situation why driving is getting out of hand these days...that plus people driving way below the speed limit. I noticed this today and the driver was oblivious to the rest of the world.

The media is of no help either in this regard. They will freely report where the radar/speed traps or road blocks are but they won't promote reporting bad or aggressive drivers to the authorities. 

Canadians, fortunately, I suppose, aren't aggressive due to our culture/ Road rage is not common place; however,  perhaps one day, we will see more incidents of reported road rage and then only then will this be taken seriously. 

And you were expecting what to happen?

Without you as a witness there is no driving evidence so there is nothing to support a charge for the poor driving you are complaining about.

What's the point of attending the residence to look at the car? It's on private property and these days that would mean a search warrant is needed unless the owner volunteered to have it examined. Without your support there are not grounds for a warrant either.

Is it any wonder that your complaint was recorded for information only?

I don't agree with your thinking. Would the police officer be charged with trespassing if he simply  walked around the front yard, assuming the vehicle was not parked indoors? I don't think so. 

In any event, maybe you don't feel commmication or education is not necessary. however, one might be surprised how a simple "talking to" from the police might do to change one's behavior. Besides, if law enforcement would waste tax payers money in trying to find a lost cell phone owned by a pretty blonde, they can come knocking on someone's door for what would be a safety issue.

Likely the drivers mentioned in these posts also speed regularly.Why would some one take a day's pay cut to go to court for a maybe conviction. This process makes little sense, other than serious criminal cases. Surely speed monitoring technology would regularly identify high risk drivers and the superintendent of motor vehices would suspend their licence-a wake up call to prevent a probable collision .

What is the hold up on speed camera technology in BC?

These posted complaints on enforcement are common -in many places in BC and driver behaviour is why injuries and costs are increasing on BC Roads.

It seems to be taboo to the present Government, but they are missing an opportunity to help police our many miles of roads.Yes it is electronic monitoring of speed- speed cameras. Well advertised ,portable and moved to the many crash sites in the Province to educate high speed drivers -too many who also drive distracted and impaired.

ICBC rates are going up due to the increased number of injuries and severity of injuries. As a customer I want them to start to work smarter on preventing accidents.The technology is available, while police are overloaded with many other issues

Phil, you're a fairly new poster here, you share some interesting views with "Class 1 Driver". And while Class 1 guy is pretty infamous for posting their musings on-line under the name of Larry Ash, I tend to believe Larry's/Class 1's posts to be genuine to what they really mean, but what is your angle?

Everything you posted so far is the Speed Kills talking points that are several years out of date. Namely the over-top / head-in-the-sand / black-is-white kind of public propaganda generalizations that address none of the actual dynamic issues that may appear from time to time on our roads and is generally viewed as a thing of the past. I'm pretty sure the "Speed Kills your pocket" video took care of highlighting most of the dissonances that this chapter of propaganda entails, see it on YouTube.

In your today's post I've read "crash sites" as "cash sites" first - which is more appropriate anyways...

You do realize that EDUCATION does not equal PUNISHMENT.
And that electronic means of ticketing do a disservice to all road users - because in no way do they actually educate drivers. Getting a ticket two weeks or more after the offense in the mail for a section of road that you can barely even recall anymore is nothing but a cash grab and a nuisance.

Electronic means do not even address the point of driver's identity and therefore all offenses are issued against the vehicle owner and bear no demerit points. Having those installed actually takes Police presence away and virtually legitimizes speeding as an additional tax; since those who can afford it suffer 0 additional consequences.

Real Police pull-overs are an immediate punishment - drivers get stopped in their tracks right after the offense and face an uncomfortable situation of explaining to another human being the reasons behind their unsafe / unlawful action. They also may get a ticket, which is for their exact persona - as identified by the Police officer - and if the offense carries demerit points - those are assigned to the right person.

Hopefully the cop also explains to the driver why what they did was ill-advised.

That's education.

Tell me, when was the last time a speed camera had a reckless driver stopped and towed? With hundreds of Lambos, Ferraris and Maseratis zooming around lower mainland with the green N signs on their backs - do you think that they will slow down because of it or will they welcome the ticket with no demerits and no-tow next time they are going 200km/h on the highway? I don't think money is an issue for them - the only thing that will stop those people from eventually taking someone's life is taking their sweet ride away, at least temporarily.

Most everything you've posted here so far in-general, especially the "angry cries" of "when will the gov do something" or "gov has no interest in saving lives" makes me feel extra paranoid that you're here undercover on behalf of the Injustice Minister and Primonster Crusty to promote the next stage of the road tax traditionally sold as "safety", cause "BC residents" have been "asking for it".

If you aren't - that's fine - lots of people wish for things that they don't fully fathom - hence the old adage - "Be careful of what you wish for".

However, it should be considered a supplement to police action rather than a replacement for it.

The fact that the current regime does not always assign penalty points can easily be changed. In fact, with the current ability of the registered owner (RO) to nominate the driver, it is really almost there. What may need to be tweaked is that if the RO doesn't ID the driver, they get the points. It will be some incentive to consider who uses their vehicle and will insure that penalty points are assigned.

Nominate or accuse? I think that in this circumstance it is the same thing and should provide the same rights on the "nominated" party: namely the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty; or suffer being struck down as unconstitutional. Wouldn't you agree that the nominee has the defense of "it wasn't me" available to them and at that point the registered owner has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt the identity of the driver who was cited at the time?

Furthermore, why would any registered owner spend the extra effort to nominate a driver for points, where the alternative would be to pay the ticket as the owner - suffer no consequences and get the ticketed amount from the driver in-private?

In-fact, if electronic enforcement was here, it would make more sense to drive each other's vehicles regularly.

That way both parties win by walking away with their driving records intact. The real losers are the public that are being told that roads are "safe", where in reality patrols will be cut down even further.

I can agree that complementing traffic enforcement with technology is a good move. But I find it highly unlikely that it will be an addition not a replacement.

My beliefs are based on reading about ATS and the mess with red-light cameras in the various small towns in the USA, where all sorts of shenanigans on the municipal and corporate levels led to situations that are the exact opposite of the intended result - instead of less accidents there are now more accidents - especially where the yellow time at a red-light-camera intersections has been cut to as little as 1 second (from standard 3-4 sec) resulting in increased rear-endings.

I've never heard of a municipality actually cutting down on the tickets it issues once any sort of electronic ticketing was installed. In-fact all such municipalities have had annual tickets increase by quite a bit (if not double) year-after-year.

If tickets are the punishment in the name of safety, wouldn't the regularly increasing amount of tickets indicate the decreasing amount of safety? The resolution of the above conflict is simple - money.

Create more rules and methods to enforce them on a pretense of safety - with the real object being a habitual budgetary supplement - loosely accounted and highly opaque.

This is the race to the bottom, just the same as automated telephone menus, ATMs, self-checkouts and automated fast food ordering. No McDonalds or movie theater have hired-on more staff as a result of automation of its primary tasks - its quite the opposite - business needs dictate that if you are not needed, you do not get paid. As a result service/courtesy has been phased out, and for the same money - you can now talk to the machine.

I'm afraid that with the situation on the roads being fairly safe and with the trend of deaths still in-decline, human traffic enforcement is no longer necessary. I even doubt that accidents will increase dramatically if traffic enforcement were to simply vanish for an entire year - I bet most road users won't even notice.

My personal observation over the last decade driving - there were a heck of a lot more marked traffic cops on the roads 10 years ago. Noways - every 4 of 5 pull overs that I see (rarely) are all undercover "obtuse" vehicles that no-one thinks has a cop in it.

Believe it or not, I clearly remember most of my Police<->Driver interactions, and I hold them out to be quite the notable experiences in my life - from most of which I've picked up good knowledge and sound advice.

Tell me what can a speed camera teach me? An averaging camera can at-most teach me to pull over for 5 minutes before I reach the exit check-point if I think I've completed the section a little too fast for its liking :P

In reply to by Outrageous

Bringing in the newer technology of speed distance cameras and assigning points to the RO instead of just a fine, then there is much more at stake than money to the rich. And driving someone else's vehicle all the time? What good would that do again? Before long a driver will lose their license. Would you risk your license to let a friend speed?

Me personally would make someone sign my vehicles own log book that shows the date & time they were using my vehicle, no sign no drive, very simple solution.

Then this comment of yours copied & pasted,,,,,,,,,, "Tell me what can a speed camera teach me? An averaging camera can at-most teach me to pull over for 5 minutes before I reach the exit check-point if I think I've completed the section a little too fast for its liking :P",,,,,,,,,,,,, What can that teach you you ask, well let me ask you then, what would be the point of speeding in the first place if you keep having to pull off the road any ways and keep track of your time every time you drive, rather than just driving the posted speed. It will take you the same amount of TIME any ways,,, correct? Wouldn't that teach you to follow the limit seeing as you can't pass the camera before a certain time is up, or are you going to figure out all the distances between cameras, then figure out how long it takes at the speed limit between cameras, just so you can speed and then PARK & WAIT any ways?

Then the big bonus if done correctly, ALL speeders will be caught, so revenue will sky rocket, this in turn can pay for more under cover police to also monitor the Hwy's and look for Speeders that still want to speed and then PARK to wait until it's time to be able to pass the next camera,,,, that's just hilarious when you think about,,, Either way your getting slowed down to where there is nothing to gain from speeding, except maybe a ticket from an under cover officer any ways.

Then the even bigger bonus, once drivers realize they either follow the speed limit or lose their license, CRASHES will lower in numbers which means less Injuries & Deaths, Insurance rates will drop, heath care costs for the province will drop, productivity will Increase because of less lost time, and the government could be BILLIONS of dollars ahead EVERY YEAR. So how could that not be anything but good?

I agree that to change behaviour, consequences need to be soon and certain- Therefore any speed camera ticket should be delivered as timely as possible. Likely ICBC has access to the vehicle home address - the ticket could arrive the same day/next day by courier. With a drone system who knows - the ticket could be delivered much sooner, perhaps when the driver exits the vehicle.

Phil, it's hard to actually take your writing seriously:

"I agree" - maybe its just crazy of me but I see it as a markedly positive means to present your counter-arguments.

"consequences need to be soon and certain", "should be delived as timely as possible", "Likely ICBC has access", "could arrive the same day/ next day" - are all description of untimely service when compared to simply getting pulled over.

"a drone system" - a highly overused popular topic of the time. In the context you describe it would make more sense to mount cameras on masts above intersections (as is already being done).

"there are far too many customers" - they are not customers, they are free persons conducting their lawful business rightfully using public roads as a shared conveyance for their means. Seems everyone is a customer or a consumer, are there no people anymore?

"I would be very impressed if the Justice Minister and Premier reacted to suggestions" - yes, yes you would be, because you "asked for it".

"moved forward to test the effectivess of speed camera technology" - test as-in sample vendors or sign-on for a demo? Because there is no need for intrinsic testing - this technology has been rolled out in many municipalities - the result is already known: its less traffic cops, more tickets, higher revenues, and in some places more accidents. That's basically what ATS advertises to the municipalities (except for the accidents).

Therefore I still hold my belief that either you are one of the most indoctrinated persons in regards to road safety in BC or you are the mouth-piece of the indoctrination.

Back to the topic. Police should have all the tools possible to prevent accidents caused by excessive speed, impaired and distracted - the 3 major causes of fatalities and most injuries on BC Roads.

Injuries are increasing - change is required.

Interesting that Drones have been approved in BC, to aid firefighters in spotting hot spots in wild fires. They can fly at night and crews can respond next morning.

It seems that similar technology could be used to spot aggressive drivers,excessive speeders, potential impaired drivers - and be used in conjunction with police cruisers to get high risk drivers off BC roads.

It seems that similar technology could be used to spot aggressive drivers,excessive speeders, potential impaired drivers- and be used in conjunction with police cruisers to get high risk drivers off BC roads.

How does a drone 'know' how to spot an aggressive driver, never mind a potential impaired one?

I don't think they have the same heat signature as a hot spot in a wild fire ...

In reply to by CompetentDrivingBC

Good question. I expect there are number of very bright people working on this application of drone technology, as they have for fighting forest fires. In the good old days , there was sometimes and "eye in the sky" - a pilot with a stop watch who would track speeders and radio to a patrol car for intervention/education - a ticket.. It seems that it is timely to do something higher tech to reduce the number of injuries and deaths on BC Roads.

Great to see Highways Minister Todd Stone installing new cameras on roads in the Comox Valley. The article states 650 installed cameras on BC roads. It seems that the BC Government is finally helping educate drivers and.... helping police to identify aggressive, distracted, impaired driver can't be too far down the road.