I live on rural road in northern BC. The road has a speed limit of 80 kph. It is paved (seal coated), forested, winding with steep gradients, has steep drop-offs, has no lane markings, no pedestrian walkways, has lots of deer, elk, moose and bear crossing and has many hidden residential entrances. Many vehicles speed along this road even though the time they save in reaching the main highway will only amount to a minute or two. The RCMP presence on this road is effectively non-existent.
If I could document the speeding vehicles then I could perhaps persuade the RCMP to exert some presence on the road. I would like to know if anyone has found a way for an individual to document vehicle speeds on a road; say with a motion-triggered trail camera in conjunction with low-cost speed display such as those used to measure baseball speeds. It does not need to be accurate to legal standards; just sufficient to convince the RCMP to do something.
Automation of the data collection would be nice. The only people that I know of doing that now are some of the SpeedWatch groups. Their speed readers are recording the data, but not video.
I am not aware of any personal, affordable "photo radar" setups, but that's not to say that there aren't any out there.
The other story that comes to mind is that of a farmer who decided that a certain lead footed constable needed to be dealt with. He could see the highway from his kitchen window. After some thought he measured the distance between the utility poles and sat at his kitchen table with a stop watch. When the police car went by, he timed how long it took to pass between the two poles and converted time/distance into speed and after collecting some history made an official complaint.
It wasn't automatic and there was no video, but it was certainly accurate enough to back up his complaint.
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My daily commute sometimes takes me past a peculiar group of people wielding clipboards, wearing high visibility vests, who are congregating around a radar powered speed board. Usually it is 3 to 4 individuals, in the second part of their century, sporting grey hair, large glasses and an ever-present smile.
These people are spending their valuable, if ever-shrinking time to promote safety, security, self-involvement and community contribution. They mostly set up shop for 2 to 3 hours during rushhour in areas with good shoulders, plenty of traffic and safety-oriented speed limiting signs.
Every time I drive by these curios gatherings I am overjoyed with the amount concern and action these people are extending to protect, defend and enforce our fellow kin to change for the better. No doubt that such sense of community, selfless involvement and taking responsibility for society, as I've witnessed early in my childhood, growing up in the USSR, will lead to the most positive and bright future. Measured in 5 year increments. With a madatory Leader-worship. Criminal punishments for 3 generations. Gulags and regular political disappearances.
I cannot help but hope that someone would thank these fine folk for getting involved with a gift of recognition.
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Dear Outrageous,
Thank you for answering my question which is: "I would like to know if anyone has found a way for an individual to document vehicle speeds on a road; say with a motion-triggered trail camera in conjunction with a low-cost speed display such as those used to measure baseball speeds. It does not need to be accurate to legal standards; just sufficient to convince the RCMP to do something."
The other part of my posting is intended to explain the context in order to assist those who have relevant useful practical experience of a similar situation to provide an answer.
The posting was a request for practical information on suitable equipment. It wasn't intended to be a debate on the merits of speedwatch groups.
I doubt Tim has the time to moderate so many forum topics, given the magnificent unpaid work he does keeping this wonderful web site up and running. So perhaps you could assist him my moving your posting to a more appropriate forum concerned with the merits of speedwatch groups.
Best regards.
Tranquil
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Dear Tranquil:
As your final point is to "convince RCMP to do something", it is implied that
a) You are not satisfied with how RCMP are doing their job
b) You are concerned with vehicles exceeding the speed limit on a street near you
You wish to log and present evidence to RCMP that vehicles exceed speed-limit in hopes that the RCMP would police the street near you more often than they currently do. From this either can be deduced:
a) You would like to enforce your will on others
b) You would like to make the street near you safer
...Let's just assume you want to make the road safer, but logging evidence and confronting the RCMP with it will not be a direct, nor effective way of achieving that.
Safety in a transportation system is a factor of unsuccessful (crashed) trips over total trips taken; address the accidents, don't worry about the traveling speeds. Highways (high speed roads) have always had their crash percentages lower than the low speed roads - majority of people recognize the dangers which come with higher speeds, but relax in area of perceived safety on slow roads.
Here's a list of things you COULD do to make any road safer:
a) Talk to your neighbors - usually they are the ones doing the speeding - don't accuse - just say "The other day somebody was going so fast, they barely avoided the ditch".
b) Talk to the neighbors with immediate driveways next to the 80km/h road - often a few pruned trees can have the most effect on the actual safety.
c) Plywood cuts-out of cars/people/children silhouettes, painted reflective yellow, are a notable display of "potential hazards" - see if your neighborhood wants to place a few of those on their front lawns next to the "fast street"
Highways will continue to "speed up" - it's a guarantee, backed by the economic demand. That "Roll back" at Walmart, that pay-raise in McDonalds - all will come from improvement in other areas. Transportation is one of the most "improvable" areas of inefficiencies in our current society. Time = money, speed = distance/time, and since distance can't yet be manipulated: increased speed = money.
From a purely technical standpoint, you can make your own: creating a speed and traffic logging device. Two of these will fulfill your technical requirements completely.
Just keep in-mind: RCMP will likely treat your suggestion the same with or with-out the technical evidence.
RCMP are aware that the 85% of drivers travel above the posted speeds, primarily because the posted speeds do not reflect the perceived abilities of the 85% of the drivers.
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Hi Tranquil - When I first joined the Totonto Police (Sept. of 1947)we 'clocked speeders' via the simple method of 'timing' the vehicle's passage through a carefully measured 1/4 mile (440 yards) stretch of the roadway. The Officer stood where he coulld clearly see the vehicle's 'entrance' to this stretch, at which time he 'started' his 'stop watch' & as the suspect vehicle left the 440 yard stretch he 'stopped' the watch & noted the license plate # & description (make/model/colour, etc.) of the suspect vehicle. If indeed the simple math indicated speed in excess of the legal limit, the registered owner received a Summons via the mail. If he didn't pay in time, 'personal service', (hand delivery by an Officer) was made & if that didn't work > a Bench Warrant for arrest was issued!
Yes - this is a time consuming method, but an inexpensive stop watch, tape measure, note pad/pen, is all the gear needed. Your subsequent reports to the Police may spur them into action. They may even 'deputize' you as an (unpaid) Auxillary Officer!! - Ted
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There are several things you can do that haven't been mentioned yet, depending on how much time and effort you want to invest.
Princess Auto (if you have one nearby) sells a Bushnell radar gun for about $100. If I remember correctly the accuracy is +/- 0.5%. The police won't be able to act on any readings you give them, but hopefully they won't ignore you after you went to the trouble of providing them with readings. In my area (Saanich, BC) if you report time and date, direction of travel, location, and licence #, they will send a warning letter to the driver. The next time that driver gets pulled over, IF the officer takes the time to check, and he?she sees a warning has already been issued, they will be less likely to let him go with another warning. You can provide these reports even if you don't have a radar gun and are just estimating the speed, although the radar reading adds a little credibility to your report.
Contact the Engineering dept. of your local municipality (or regional district if you live outside municipal limits), tell them you have a speeding problem and ask them to install a speed reader. The black boxes you see with the rubber tubes across the road are quite sophisticated in what they can measure. The reports I get from Saanich are in the form of a spreadsheet that gives exact time, speed, direction, and even sorts out the vehicle type (everything from a motorcycle to a semi). These are facts they can't deny, and with pressure from you and your neighbours they may act on them, either by lowering the speed limit or by passing them on to police for enforcement. You don't have to wait for the municipality, you can take the numbers in to the police yourself. Some municipalities and police depts. are now using the new speed reader boards. They look like a small flat screen tv strapped on a telephone pole. They light up and tell the driver how fast they are going. What most people don't know is that these gadgets can operate in several different modes. They not only tell the driver his speed but they can record the time, direction, and speed for later review. They can also operate in stealth mode with the display shut off but still recording info. Your tax dollars pay for that information and you are entitled to access it. Don't let the municipality baffle you with bs.
While we are talking about bs, another thing the engineers will bring up is the 85th percentile. They will claim that as long as 85% of the drivers are going at a certain speed or less, then that means the road is safe at that speed. They will sometimes even increase the speed limit to match the 85th percentile speed. That is a total abdication of their responsibility. Google "The 85th percentile folly" to get a good explanation of why this 1960's theory is being totally misapplied to municipal and residential streets.
Something else you can try, is to get together with your neighbours and form a traffic committee to lobby local politicians for speed reductions on your street. This can be a hard sell, but this year is an election year so they may be more willing to listen. Don't fall for "contact me after the election", you will likely never hear from them again, unless you have more receptive Councillors than I have.
You can email me if you like and I can give more details of what our traffic group is ding here in Saanich.
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